Our Plan B

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Our Plan B

Post by Ciabatta on Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:19 pm

Hello all,

Today I have something very special for you all... a new manifesto of sorts relevant to the future of this server.

Let me start off by saying that the Gulliver Server will be here forever and will not be going away (at least not before our 3-year mandate) and will not be changing at all unless new versions of Gulliver get released.  However, that next release has been growing increasingly more uncertain with Mion's schedule this year, and what with Minecraft now enjoying its 1.9 release, I have to admit that 1.6.4 (and even 1.7.x) are becoming increasingly-dated.  And rather than put up with this increasing slide into obsolescence, I think it's time to adopt a viable Plan B to continue rewarding our players for their time and creativity.

Although we've had many great successes with Little Brother, the truth is that it's not paid sufficiently-enough in its current "chaotic" state to justify the expense of keeping it as a side server.  Granted I don't mind having it as a test server so the money aspect isn't an issue, but I feel it's time we gave Little Brother a chance to do more.  Therefore, I want it to become an integral part of our Plan B.

Using our 2 years of experience vetting out different mods, I propose that we retire Little Brother as a chaotic, once-per-month test server, and repurpose it into the main "cutting-edge" branch of Big Sister.  The Ark region from Big SIster can be imported into this new repurposed Little Brother (as originally planned), but it will be imported into a brand new Minecraft 1.8 world (or 1.7.10 if we feel it more prudent).  From there, it will allow itself to resume the standard execution plan we had in mind after a potential Gulliver 1.7 update -- meaning that the area outside the Ark will spawn a brand new world of Ice Spikes and Mesas, and possibly even andacite and water temples.  

But that's not all.  In order to closely match the size theme that we've grown to adore from Gulliver, we also plan to pair it with other size-themed mods that we've had some experience with on LB.  


  • CustomNPCs is a given, as I've always said this servers as a fantastic compliment to Gulliver, what with its ability to create tiny and giant NPCs (as well as some amazing quests and shops).

  • Morph Mod, if it can update to 1.8, can allow us to assume the giant hit boxes of other mobs, allowing us to fit through tiny tunnels as silverfish, or fit in giant areas as Endermen or Ghasts.

  • Mo Creatures would liven the world with tons of new animals and monsters, and also provide the means for morphed players to excute special powers... such as flight or the ability to swim gracefully in the sea.

  • And although we'd want to try to limit the mods to those that don't add too many blocks, if you feel willing to take the risk, we can also include more ambitious mods like Twilight Forest (which also has giants) and Biomes O Plenty (which may be a bit too extreme, but certainly fun).  


Lastly, Big Sister will continue as a parallel Gulliver Server, serving more as a roleplaying server of sorts.  Builds to and from the Ark regions of BS and LB can be imported to and fro on special demand so we can keep both server's Ark regions more or less intact.  And of course the new server will bring new opportunities for making money, so we'll find some way to not only preserve the Cheese system, but expand it too.

We still have some time to think this over, especially since not all the mods above had 1.8 versions.  But if this sounds like something you'd be interested in us pursuing, please sound off with comments and suggestions below.

Looking forward to seeing everyone's thoughts!
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Re: Our Plan B

Post by HannahChi on Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:06 pm

That sounds awesome Cia. ^_^ Twilight forest would be really fun. And while you said we could either do 1.7.10 or 1.8 as we discussed when we were in steam, I might suggest we use 1.7.10 first then update to 1.8 when all the mods have been updated. So basically a new server instead of Little brother I suppose. I guess also little brother was starting to run out of new flavour ideas, espiecally since we had no suggestions for Augusts flavour, so hence I ended up asking people if they wanted to expand this flavour. Speaking of, would you have to close that early for this? I'd really love to help to make this work.

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Re: Our Plan B

Post by Raddaman8000 on Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:30 pm

Well, I'm sort of confused... if the main server is going to become an rp server, then does that mean my Baby Cousin rp server idea is going to go to waste? I mean, from the sounds of it we might want to swap the names of the servers with this plan... it sounds like Little Brother is becoming the main server. Granted, this might be personal paranoia since I'm missing all of this on vacation, but still... I guess I'm just not too sure about it myself.
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Re: Our Plan B

Post by Ciabatta on Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:58 pm

The details are still not sketched out, but I meant it might be used mainly for RPs since that's primarily what we use Gulliver for.  Of course if people want to play Gulliver in 1.6.4 just because that's what they want, they can do that too -- we won't make the server be for this or that purpose. Besides, so long as Gulliver remains stationary, very little support beyond this can be provided to the "stable" branch since most attention will be put on the "cutting edge" branch.  In the case of Baby Cousin you can find some other means to differentiate it if you feel the need to change your plans, because I certainly don't think it's necessary

As for any name swaps... I'm planning that that might happen in the future, but initially LB will serve as the staging area.

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Re: Our Plan B

Post by Ciabatta on Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:15 pm

Hannah wrote:That sounds awesome Cia. ^_^ Twilight forest would be really fun. And while you said we could either do 1.7.10 or 1.8 as we discussed when we were in steam, I might suggest we use 1.7.10 first then update to 1.8 when all the mods have been updated. So basically a new server instead of Little brother I suppose. I guess also little brother was starting to run out of new flavour ideas, espiecally since we had no suggestions for Augusts flavour, so hence I ended up asking people if they wanted to expand this flavour. Speaking of, would you have to close that early for this? I'd really love to help to make this work.
Thank you Hannah.  ^^

Although 1.7.10 is more stable, I'd really prefer if we could stick to a 1.8 release since that's where the last major land changes occur.  If we can get the alternate rock and the sea temples to spawn, then we're pretty much set for a while, whereas this could get complicated with an update from 1.7.10 (possibly?).  Maybe that's something we can test on LB later.

Speaking of which... Sure!  I could definitely use some help. ^^
It might be necessary to end the current LB flavour early for this if there's enough interest, but again that's dependent on how much interest there is to do this.  After that we'll want to test test and test like there's no tomorrow!  ^^

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Re: Our Plan B

Post by Spitfire on Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:48 pm

This is a great idea. A more consistent scenario, an expansion of biomes, a newer version of minecraft, and the ability to change form that will also change your hitbox will bring something fresh and new for the players of the main server. Little Brother brings a new mod and interesting game mechanics on a monthly basis. My problem with Little Brother as it is, it keeps me from wanting to build due to the map getting wiped every month. For those of us who favor building above all else in minecraft, keeping their work is important.

The ability to change form with MO creatures while adopting their appropriate size, hitbox, and abilities will create inspiration for players to make amazing buildings. The ability to fly as a bird and place blocks in hard to reach spots that would normally require a stack of dirt isn't bad either.

As for combat, nothing is more satisfying then mowing down your enemies as an elephant! elephant

I would love to see this change happen, and I would definitely visit Little Brother a lot more often. x3
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Re: Our Plan B

Post by Ciabatta on Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:22 pm

Oh wow, we have an elephant icon!  Thank you Spit, that's the spirit!  And it is indeed like saving two birds with one net, as LB does suffer from a lack of interest precisely because of its erratic nature, so this would help formalize it as a proper alternate server. ^^

After some initial testing, I have bad news and good/bittersweet news.  The bad news is that after testing CustomNPCs with Morph, it appears like it's not possible to morph into CustomNPCs.  Which I guess is understandable given how complex the NPC is.  Sad

But on the good/bittersweet news, we CAN transform into Twilight Forest Giants, complete with HUGE hit box, camera change, and appropriately-sluggish motion.  It seems huge, but in actuality it's about the equivalent of a 4 or 5x in Gulliver.  I included some pictures below, one with Faux Hannah at 15 size grade, the second at her maximum of 30 size grade (or about 6 or 7x Gulliver).  Makes for some interesting roleplay possibilities. ^^




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Re: Our Plan B

Post by Adamsuper2002 on Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:19 am

Really fantastic idea, I love it. But there is one thing we missed. See, the morph mod might be great for single player, but there is a problem that we would have work with if we installed it. Namely, the Minecraft mobs.

Let's look at a Creeper first, before we get too chaotic, It's a living bomb. All it has to do is come up to a bunch of chests and all the items are gone.

Now let's look at a blaze, it can shoot fire charges, which burn flammable things.

And now the Ghast, It can fly and shoot explosive balls which pack the power of TNT at will, no cooldown, no anything.

Keep in mind, that they can switch between any of these forms at any time, with any size

This will get overused, and I'm worried it might impact some of the hand-built cities out there. That's why I'm against using the Morph mod for now, and focusing on things like Twilight forest and Mo'Creatures, because it is such a great idea, and you should really work towards making it better. Don't get me wrong with all that negative thinking. I'll try to help out as much as I possibly can.

~Hammy
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Re: Our Plan B

Post by Spookster on Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:54 am

Well... I kind of like the idea but in a way again not, could we not make a own fresh updated world in the newer versions of minecraft and use that as world map? I feel like two of the same worlds on separate servers will ask for alot of importing (if people create buildings here and there on LB and BG)... and it might always be possible to import small things from BG to LB and vice versa instead of the complete ark.

In any way... I absolute love the costum npc mod and if given the chance I might be able to create a Lb Unique quest too xP.

In short: I don't think importing the complete ark is a good idea but smaller imports like towns might be better and so we can also enjoy the new generation, however I do love the ideas of the other mods like costum npc and morph.

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Re: Our Plan B

Post by Ciabatta on Thu Aug 06, 2015 8:27 am

@Hammy:  hmmm... Well I won't say I'm a huge fan of the Morph mod, but I don't believe it can do all that, I certainly haven't seen it do anything overly destructive aside from letting players fly as aerial mobs (which could be bad in other ways, but small price to pay for the loss of Gulliver bats).  Not to mention that the exploding chest thing is possible today with TNT, and there is no firespread, so ultimately this would be little different from what we usually police.  

But it does highlight one flaw with Morph mods, and that's that the mod is still incomplete, buggy, and unbalanced... Even the mod creator has stated that it's still an overpowered beta test and needs better integration into the game.  It's main use for us is to give us some kind of transformation skills so we don't miss being big or small, but if we don't mind having this right away, it can certainly be omitted until it gets more stable, especially since it's a fully non-destructive mod.

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Re: Our Plan B

Post by Ciabatta on Thu Aug 06, 2015 8:38 am

@Spookie:  sorry Spookie, although I know why you propose this, I already planned this scenario for an import to a later world.  And in fact the Ark project was designed so I could easily drop in our world, all our builds (at least from people following instructions, lol), roads, bridges, etc., and with no more effort than just dragging and dropping some select region files.  If I were to break these up into little town imports, that will create significantly more work for me, ruin all the work we've sunk into roads and bridges, and potentially mess up our teleporters.  Plus importing to and from BS and LB after that won't be so bad, and probably won't occur too often as everyone initially will want to build outside the Ark in the new world.

I do know you'd make GREAT use of CustomNPCs, so I'm looking forward to seeing what you can do with that.  Smile

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Re: Our Plan B

Post by Adamsuper2002 on Thu Aug 06, 2015 8:58 am

First off, I’m very sorry for the pessimistic thinking. I was always more of a person that always waits to double-check everything before it begins. And on the subject of my previous statement, I might be confusing it with a different mod, but there is still one problem that I found while double-checking everything. The Morph Mod simply won’t work. I was looking at the Gulliver mod page and I found out the following:

“Mods that seem compatible with Gulliver but don't really work:
More Player Models (resizing issues, player reach positioning, "illegal stance" errors)
Smart Moving (glitchy special moves, incorrect movement speed, getting stuck underwater)
other mods that change the player model or height/width
...”

(I underlined the important part)

Simply put it, The Morph Mod just won’t be compatible with the Gulliver Mod, at least in this version of the game, unless I’m missing something of value here.

Once again, sorry for the negative train of thought, I know from experience that sometimes not everything goes the way it should, so I always check for inconsistencies and point them out.

~Hammy
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Re: Our Plan B

Post by Night_Lord123 on Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:02 am

It's an interesting idea, but being a temporary mod for it I have to say I'm going to miss little brothers monthly falavors, it was kinda unique you know, but honestly this could change big sis in all the right ways and that would be incredible, I haven't been on in a while but I care about this server and I think this could get the attention that it deserves :3
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Re: Our Plan B

Post by Ciabatta on Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:51 am

@Hammy: no worries.  I rather people posting any thoughts than keeping them to themselves, as it keeps the discussion going.  And we need a LOT of discussion here. Smile

This new parallel server will be on Minecraft 1.7.10 or 1.8.x, so it will not have Gulliver sadly.  It may have Gulliver some day once the mod has caught up with later versions, at which point we can incorporate it into the parallel server and then we'd have the best of both worlds. Smile

@Tex:  Poor tex. ;-;
But yeah, I thought it was a great feature, just a bit under-utilized is all.  The new parallel server will certainly retain the feel of a LB flavor, however, so it's not a total loss. ^^

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Re: Our Plan B

Post by Ciabatta on Fri Aug 07, 2015 2:04 pm

Hey all,

I'm thinking up some pros and cons of our mod selection thus far.  Feel free to contribute your own thoughts to this...

CustomNPCs
Pros:

  • We can create NPCs of basically any player, and almost any thing.
  • The NPCs can be grown very large (6x Gulliver) or shrunk to a very small (.25x Gulliver) size.
  • We get an elaborate questing system that can be used for highly-customized adventures
  • We can institute a more elaborate trading system and player stores
  • We get tons of new usable items and weapons, including guns and shields.
  • No new blocks, at least none that would normally be used for buildings
  • The mod is largely stable, and is also open source
  • The mod has some preliminary 1.8 support

Cons:

  • Only NPCs can be big, not us (and Morph mod wont work on these)
  • Large-sized NPCs occasionally bug-out, causing them to disappear.
  • Too many NPCs in one area might cause lag (untested, but it's a possibility to consider)
  • This mod will initially only be useful for staff, as players won't have access to all its benefits right away.
  • On the same vein, this mod may create more work for staff (albeit fun work, but still work).
  • Its trading system may conflict with our Cheese system, so we'll have to plan out how to get it integrated.
  • Its many items may present a liability in the event we can no longer use this mod, as all these items would disappear.


Morph Mod
Pros:

  • Allow us to morph into almost any creature, creating many new RP possibilities
  • Camera tracking is enabled in this mod, so it has a very Gulliver-like feel, especially when shrinking down to smaller creatures (such as mice or ants), or larger creatures (such as ghasts or Twilight Forest giants).
  • Some Morphs offer many special abilities, such as flying or swimming, allowing to reclaim lost abilities such as bat-flying.
  • No new items or blocks are introduced, so we can come in and out of this mod whenever we want.

Cons:

  • BUGGY -- appears to not always work for me, at least not without jamming my keyboard a lot. Still in beta. ><
  • Although Gulliver-like in camera view, there is no actual interaction (such as picking up players or physics), so it's a poor substitute.
  • Potentially-unbalanced -- some Morphs might make players too powerful, or can be abused.
  • No 1.8 support yet (but it's planned)
  • Requires two mods to work (iChunUtil).
  • Not well integrated into Minecraft... the usage menu is not as intuitive as we'd like, but possibly because it's still in beta.


Mo Creatures
Pros:

  • Lots and LOTS of new mobs -- friendly, neutral and hostile -- to liven up our world!
  • Includes new hobbies, such as kitten raising, fishbowls, and taming pets
  • Contains a fair selection of new items, such as new weapons, armor and food (TURKEY!!).
  • Adds only a minimum of new blocks, nothing we wouldn't miss.
  • Provides many new mobs to work with Morph Mod.
  • The mod is largely stable, and we have ample experience with it.


  • The mod has some preliminary 1.8 support.

Cons:

  • Its many new mobs will make the game harder for survival players, especially with the more annoying mobs (ie, werewolves and ogres).
  • It does introduce a new dimension and a few new blocks that might get lost should we discontinue use of this mod.
  • Some elements of the mod are a little unpolished (ie, elephant taming, difficulty of finding crafting recipes)
  • Aside from offering many small animals to Morph into, this mod doesn't really offer a lot in terms of size-theme the way the other mods do.


Twilight Forest
Pros:

  • A very exciting mod that offers a dazzling new dimension, with tons of new blocks, items, mobs, trees, and adventure possibilities.
  • Contains Giants, which when paired with the Morph mod will allow us to reclaim something close to a 4x-5x size from Gulliver.
  • We have a lot of experience with this mod and can integrate many of its features into our Gulliver-like creations (ie, giant Twilight Oak trees).
  • Compliments the other mods in giving players LOTS of new things to do.
  • The mod is long-standing and is very stable.
  • The mod is very well-integrated into Minecraft.

Cons:

  • Introduces a TON of new blocks and a new dimension, which would be all lost should we one day cease to use this mod.  We may need to disclaim this before anyone begins using these blocks in the Overworld.
  • Introduces lots of new items that would also get lost should the above scenario happen.
  • No 1.8 version, and the mod is relatively-slow to update.
  • The Twilight dimension can be laggy, though this arguably could go away after the initial chunk loads.


Biomes O Plenty
Pros:

  • Would radically spice up our game world, introducing tons of fun new biomes to explore, as well as tons of new blocks to work with.
  • Also introduces a new dimension to explore, as well as some new items, trees and mobs.
  • The mod has 1.8 support
  • The mod can integrate well with Mo Creatures (may need some tinkering).
  • The mod is well-integrated to Minecraft and stable, and is open-source.

Cons:

  • Too many new blocks are introduced into the game world, increasing the risk of damage should we cease to use this mod.
  • Aside from the huge trees and flowers, there isn't much size-related here, so the benefits of inclusion may not outweigh the risks.
  • Some larger biomes can be laggy.
  • The biomes could interfere with vanilla terrain generation.
  • Extra biomes may now be redundant thanks to all the new biomes introduced in 1.7 Minecraft.

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Re: Our Plan B

Post by Spookster on Sat Aug 08, 2015 1:23 am

Hmm Well... Ill put my thoughts in for all these mods...

Costumnpc: its for 1.8 and I absolute love this mod... Knowing myself I already thought of a new LB quest... And about the currency we could use the many different coins for payment? And hey cheese blocks could always be trader for these coins (maybe we even call them cheese coins xP)

Morph: while it is a very fun and interesting mod to mess around with, it can be pretty unbalanced how it is now and the mod doesnt even have a 1.8 version yet. I dont think its the best idea to have the morph mod but that's just my opinion.

Mo Creatures: I havent played around much with this mod but from my experience on the flavors I dont think this mod will be a huge problem, and it even has a 1.8 version!

Twilight forest: This is a very very fun and interesting mod and I would love to have it on LB which reminds me... Would the hardcore ender expansion be a interesting mod to use too? Anyway the only Major downside is that the mod is still in 1.7

Biomes o plenty: Biomes o plenty is a very interesting mod to explore and would allow for amazing landscapes, and it has 1.8 support!

And that was my huge opinion! I think we should not take the morph mod since it could be very unbalanced for the other adventure mods, I hope these mods (and my mini hardcore ender expansion suggestion) would create a interesting server!

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Re: Our Plan B

Post by Ciabatta on Sat Aug 08, 2015 1:31 am

oh that Hardcore Ender Expansion mod DOES look cool... although I wonder why its not an Ender/Nether Expansion as the Nether is also in dire need of some interest (although Biomes O Plenty does fix that a little...)

hmmm... thats interesting... if we dont mind throwing caution in the wind, we could completely overhaul the server experience.  But with so many mods, it starts to become prudent to use a modpack. XD

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Re: Our Plan B

Post by Night_Lord123 on Sat Aug 08, 2015 4:42 am

One thing I'm worried about is the stability of the server, little bro can be laggy and big sis (not as bad) lags itself sometimes as well, so crossing my fingers it's not to bad Razz
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Re: Our Plan B

Post by Ciabatta on Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:06 am

LB has a lot less memory than BS due to it being a cheaper server package, so as a part of this I will need to upgrade LB as well.  XD

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Re: Our Plan B

Post by Lomgren on Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:33 am

Yeah, that's definitely something to consider - we don't want a lot of mods, because that will make Minecraft a lot more unstable for people on lower-spec machines. I know I've played a server with literally a couple hundred mods installed, and it took a few minutes to actually start Minecraft up and get logged in. So we need to be careful what mods we DO pick.
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Re: Our Plan B

Post by Ciabatta on Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:40 am

Hehe, I'm actually concerned about future-proofing... Too many mods will impair our ability to upgrade to future versions since we'd have to wait for ALL of them to catch up.  ><

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Re: Our Plan B

Post by TheHylianWizard on Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:33 am

Do you think we could add Tinkers Construct to the mix? I understand if you can't, but it does add new ores to the over world (maybe the nether as well) and the tools and armor add newer abilities making mining a lot more easier.
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Re: Our Plan B

Post by Ciabatta on Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:25 pm

I would if it weren't so destructive over the standard vanilla crafting; but the fact that it makes it impossible for non-tinker players to play the game kind of spells its death knell.  Sorry about that.  ;-;

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Re: Our Plan B

Post by TheHylianWizard on Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:48 pm

Its okay, I don't really mind if its added or not, I just wanted to participate, XD
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Re: Our Plan B

Post by Ciabatta on Sat Aug 08, 2015 1:03 pm

Oh yes, participation is good ^^

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Re: Our Plan B

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